DEB bill passes

Originally Posted by FireWorm

Items 1 & 2: Surely these will help with identity fraud and catching illegal immigrants and criminals.
Item 3: I do believe cctv has helped to catch criminals, make streets safer and save lives
Item 4: A bit peeved at because it'll cost and i drive a lot.....but so what if they track me...i'm doing nothing illegal.
Item 5: Not much of a gork so you'll need to break that one down for me! ^^ But if it's to do with whats been mentioned previously (clamping down on torrents) then it doesn't bother me...i'm not doing anything wrong.
Item 6: So? Maybe that does promote paranoia but it's not control.

1&2 no it wont help with illegal imigrant as the only thing that a illegal has to say is they lost there passport and there is nothing that can be done for 6 months
3 - though cctv has had slightimpact on catching mainstraem criminal 90 % of footage is inadmisable in a court of law and for all the cash that the implementation and upkeep cctv requires would pay for alot more police being on the street which haveing more coppers around is proven to be more of a deterent than cctv and more affective at catching them. i know this as i am a cctv developement engineer.
4 - didnt know about this one but tbh its a joke
5- yes its to do with torrents but what you have missed cause you are just focusing on 1 single point is that DEB forces ISP to monitor everything you do on the net all billing transactions,purchases, privite intermit e-mails you may be sharingwith a lover/mistress the list goes on so no in not only to do with torrents cause this information they acumulate has to be stored for X time and if some 3rd party gets hold of this will have access to bank details and everything else and at the end of the day is invasion of privacy or is that something were not allowed?
6- isnt paranoia a form of fear? and to live in fear is to be controled

i am sorry but i dont torrent or dl copy righted stuff and i am upset as i fell its another way for them to watch the whole instead of focusing on the few, in a free democracy you are inoccent till proven guilty with more and more of thiese bills it is more guilty till proved innocent

there is a 3rd option that i could see happening, guy fawks syndrom where ppl will rebel though this will be more than likely called a terrorist cell

I never did see why folk moaned so much about an ID card, the way i see it the only people who it would cause problems for are those doing stuff they shouldnt in the first place, if youre a law abiding citizen, its another card of many that sits in your wallet. And if people really are that upset about it, what about passport, driving licences, NI card...the list goes on.

Ok ok i conceed on those points.

After your comment on the holding of personal information for any given time for no real reason and a possibility of 3rd parties obtaining this info, if this is the case, then i would definately be against it.

And lets face it, I'm an argumentative sod and would argue that black was white if i was so inclined........and maybe thats what's occurred here.

But i still say that there is over reaction on this bill. Most of the opposition is gonna be those that illegally download.

Agreed Jock, my thoughts exactly!

I would believe that when this gets passed it won't be inforced that much, probably aimed at those downloading constantly. For instance half of the speed cameras we have don't even have camera's in, it's probably more scare tactics as they would need a whole army just to police and enforce it.

Anyway a lot of t.v and some movies are now available online throught tv channel web sites...or even Youtube! So not so much need for torrents apart from games and applications. Music is cheap downloading via the web. As Nickyboy said about downloading games for testing I think thats ok as there aren't so many demos to be had these days And I do think that some applications are very over expensive, however this might because of all the illegal copies? But I for one have now completely stopped using torrents now.

this bill was passed on the 8/4/2010 and given the queen seal on the 9th

You've all missed the point tbh. It's not the fact that people will be disconnected, but how those people will be caught. If ISPs are forced to snoop every packet of every customer, then they're prying into the lives of EVERYONE, even those not downloading stuff. How safe do you feel logging into an online banking service now you know someone is watching? You should all be terrified beyond words.

How is this linking into communism?!? Not at all, the biggest problem is the infringement on our civil liberties. How close is it to my phone being tapped to make sure im not dling illegal content though it...,

Originally Posted by Kosek

How is this linking into communism?!? Not at all, the biggest problem is the infringement on our civil liberties. How close is it to my phone being tapped to make sure im not dling illegal content though it...,

it links into communism by the way of which social movement can be controled by using a false pretense eg having a site closed down that has a different political stance/voice by making it look like they could file share copyrighted material cause now all the government need is to make a court believe that there is a posability in the future the web site will be in infringment of x,y or z to close it.

Sorry, i was steamed last night. I think what i was getting at was that if anything the internet is a cultural phenomenon, and the point being in 'marxist' communism there isnt any social movement anyway due to the removal of the class system and the re-distribution of wealth. Communism as an ideology is also quite far removed from what appears within 'communist' states. If it was "This reminds me of a communist dictatorship" then i wouldn't have said anything in my drunken stupor. It should have been qualified ...

Originally Posted by Kosek

the biggest problem is the infringement on our civil liberties

It's not really civil liberties, more your own personal space. This is no different to the police putting a cctv camera in you house just to make absolutely sure you don't beat your wife. It's utterly disgusting that perfectly lawful activities are monitored in your own damned home.