The BFB server - my thoughts

[lordgeordie]

Hello

right orginally i thought the reason i used to die more on the BFB server than any other was the class of player on the BFB server, you all have normally good tactics.

but today i noticed why, i have never seen a server so full of explosions, all thats used are rockets, nades and nade launchers, the whole maps is just boom boom boom lol

now this isn't a complaint as i know its in the game and why not use them if you can kill more people. its just strange as i am sure it wasn't this bad before, literally everything just blows up.

maybe its because i refuse to use nade launchers and rockets on soldiers now ( maybe i should go back ) wondering if anyone else has noticed this?

oh p.s love the team speak!

[abgabba]

Georgie, I totally agree. However the reason people use noobtubes and rocker lunchers is because it's much much easier to kill someone using explosions that wasting the entire clip, and I mean the entire clip to kill someone. It annoys me as hell and instead of having k/d ratio of 1/50, I prefer to die these 50 times and have at least 5 kills when using noobtube.

You can't do anything with this. You can't forbid to use any explosives on the server, can you? The only thing you can do is just to get used to it.

[Varnos]

Hey LG, you do have a point in that some people réally like the exploding weapons, though it's more a symptom of the game, not the server. But! There's a lot of people playing without using unwholesome amounts of 40mm grenades. I know it might sound a bit strange from the guy who keeps on ranting on about how Itchy overuses that weapon, but all in all, I'd say:

-There isn't a specific relationship between BFB members and non BFB'ers + tubing,
-There is a slightly elevated amount of explosions going on in our server, but nothing extraordinary.

There's a couple of things that influence one's judgement when keeping track of these deaths though:

-Annoyance is a great bloating factor. Personally, I checked how much of my deaths ended up being by tubes, but its really not that far from the statistics shown in my other thread ("itchy's not trying"), showing general usage statistics of the game's weapons. We tend to magnify these irksome deaths to the point where we start thinking they're omnipresent though, because we make a point of noting every death (as opposed to "random assault rifle death #3021).
-Conquest ís a game mode where tubes work far, far better than in conquest, I've noticed. The armed M-Com stations being an exception, the battlefield seems a lot less crowded and tubes are just less interesting weapons than, say, a sniper rifle, tank or shotgun.

Just my observations, though. I'm sure other people will disagree with me :)

[Dragonfury52]

Carl Gustav is in line for a nerf last I heard, along with the M60 and hopefully the GL. Dont know when, though

[Sinnyowns]

I started as a medic, didn't get on very well with getting blown up all the time, soon moved to noobtubes and a ammo pack. Though now I've unlocked my favourite ingame gun (AN94), I use it more than the 40mm.

The one advantage of explosives, is to take people out of buildings.

[Darth Gazak]

Though now I've unlocked my favourite ingame gun (AN94), I use it more than the 40mm.


That gun kicks ass, it's my favourite assault weapon by far. The only time that the noob tube irritates me is when I'm killed with it at close range, it's the lack of skill which irks me. Making a long range 40mml kill is an entirely different technique, and does require a little skill. Don't get me started on that Carl Gustav though, I can't believe it's accuracy over extremely long ranges. Very irritating.

[lordgeordie]

Aye i understand nothing can be done ( mind you seen other servers start to state over use of nades will cause kicks ) and i know its part of the game, but i am guessing more people have worked this out on BFB server as honestly is so hectic ( it used to be because you guys move quickly and know the game ).

i was just seeing if it was just me who noticed this, like i say i am not complaining as its part of the game, i will just have to change my tactics on the server ( yes i shall don a tenis racket - fear me )

[DragonSVD]

Hey LG, you do have a point in that some people réally like the exploding weapons, though it's more a symptom of the game, not the server. But! There's a lot of people playing without using unwholesome amounts of 40mm grenades. I know it might sound a bit strange from the guy who keeps on ranting on about how Itchy overuses that weapon, but all in all, I'd say:

-There isn't a specific relationship between BFB members and non BFB'ers + tubing,
-There is a slightly elevated amount of explosions going on in our server, but nothing extraordinary.

There's a couple of things that influence one's judgement when keeping track of these deaths though:

-Annoyance is a great bloating factor. Personally, I checked how much of my deaths ended up being by tubes, but its really not that far from the statistics shown in my other thread ("itchy's not trying"), showing general usage statistics of the game's weapons. We tend to magnify these irksome deaths to the point where we start thinking they're omnipresent though, because we make a point of noting every death (as opposed to "random assault rifle death #3021).
-Conquest ís a game mode where tubes work far, far better than in conquest, I've noticed. The armed M-Com stations being an exception, the battlefield seems a lot less crowded and tubes are just less interesting weapons than, say, a sniper rifle, tank or shotgun.

Just my observations, though. I'm sure other people will disagree with me :)

I dont know, but in 2142, BFB was famous for nade spam, but so were many other people....it is the game and its mechanics. Varnos I agree with you 100%. I play a medic and use the personal armor, i do not die as much that way, i get gustov'd a few time, naded a few times, sniped a few times, but the damn tanks are my downfall, they seem to kill me more then anything :)

[Gwyd]

Part of the problem as I see it is that the majority of the first wave of assault rifles seem weak, taking a fully clip to take down one person, this seems to encourage assault players to use the 40mm as their primary and use the rife to mop up.
The engineer on the other hand can be a power house at close range with the smg's and whore the hell out of the CG on tanks and infantry, if they balanced out the assault rifles and set the GL's reload time to near the same as the launchers, while forcing the engineer to make a choice between an anti infantry CG or anti armour/building launcher you'd see far less explosive whoring.

Also set a minimum arming distance on the gl and launchers!!

[Oneleggedhaggis]

I think its definately certain maps that have it worse than others, is the snow one. but then again i do quite well on that map :) there are alot of explosions but as i can see it they have calmed down alot. Maybe as peerople are getting the more poewerfull weapons and dont need to tube.

Im absolutly ****e with the tube on this in open ground i cant kill any one but in the buildings i do get more kills. rocket launchers are also like that, im not 2 bad with them long/close range.

Ive been on a few servers and its not just ours that can get a it boom boom or that wierd thump ---- boom noise. Some days we have sniper fest, others tubes.i dont know but camping with a medic pac seeems to keep me alive even from the collapsing buildings.. no joke

[TheMunster]

Agreed it takes far too much to kill people in BC2 and hardcore mode is essentially noob training.

People use these cheap as **** weapons because after 2 years of COD all they care about is their KDR, there's **** all team work involved in BC2 90% of the time it's just people trying to get to the top of the scoreboard, BFB members included.

[Vimes]

I have to say, prior to upgrading my comp, I had a hard time playing BC2 and my aim was really bad so I use the 40mm tube, but since my comp upgrade, which has made playing far better and unlocking some better guns I can get a lot more kills with the guns. However I do use the 40mm but they are great for killing those annoying people hiding behind a wall :) But the Gustov is stupid! Way way too acurate and powerful which makes a great easy to use weapon! But I suppose if you have one and you just emptied a clip you jump to the next best wepon, it is easy to abuse.

[zool]

tis simples,
lmgs (m60) need to have greater recoil and forced to fire minimum bullets enforcing minimum recoil
40mm nades all type should have a minimum priming range
rockets need drop factor fixing(gustov) and that if you explode a rocket with X distace you will kill yourself
shotguns should have max range of 75 yrds with a 45% hit chance at said range and have slug removed as the spas-12 cannot fire it and its illegal summot to do with hage convention :P
silenced engi weapons need damges over distance drop and accuracy decrease when sprayed
assault rifles need fixing simply
also med kit and supply kits need swapping so assault has med kit and lmg gets supply crate

ok its not simples :P but its what most have agreed on over the last week or so

[Gwyd]

tis simples,
lmgs (m60) need to have greater recoil and forced to fire minimum bullets enforcing minimum recoil
40mm nades all type should have a minimum priming range
rockets need drop factor fixing(gustov) and that if you explode a rocket with X distace you will kill yourself
shotguns should have max range of 75 yrds with a 45% hit chance at said range and have slug removed as the spas-12 cannot fire it and its illegal summot to do with hage convention :P
silenced engi weapons need damges over distance drop and accuracy decrease when sprayed
assault rifles need fixing simply
also med kit and supply kits need swapping so assault has med kit and lmg gets supply crate

ok its not simples :P but its what most have agreed on over the last week or so

The Collective TS hive mind has spoken! :handshake:

[GoRedwings]

Is it so much the weapons or more rather that there is less teamwork due to the mechanics or the players themselves.?

I remember a time when BFB members were at the forefront of teamwork in 2142. Whether you were going up the ganz users with their sentry guns or the vossers even though the classes were biased towards those classes a squad that used teamwork had no real issues. And let not forget the nadespammers.

TBH the weapons in this game is no more overpowered than the weapons in 2142 when you take a step back and look at it. Yet now it mostly about how the noobtubers, the m60 spammers the Carl gustav spammers are all overpowered.

The real issue is how BFB has forgotten the basic teamwork ethic. There is very little commuinication and most of all how members in a squad do not stick together. I understand why the 40mm is so prevalent as it the only way to take down a m60 spammer. The m60 is overpowered compared to the ammo class for most people unless of course you are weets or trash then there is no way you have the stopping power to take them down.

I think I was chatting to weets about this the other night on how BFB can't work as a team and how these past few nights randomers have been coming on and mostly dominating an almost all BFB side. Which is quite frankly embarassing. Listen to trash when he's on TS as the thing he says most of all is "where the **** is my squad?' And he says that on a frequent basis until he can't stand no more and goes off TS.

Forgive me if this comes across as offensive but I rather be on the side with less BFB'ers on it. Simply because there is a slim of chance of some teamwork being employed with randomers as to be on the BFB side where it is virtually non existant.

In 2142 you could select about 10-15 members who played at a much higher level than the rest of us due to their ability and their teamwork ethic. In BC2 only 4-5 players really stand out for me. I use to love saying various members in my top 10 ever 2142 players from BFB when taking into account all the people I use to play 2142 with from other clans.

[TheMunster]

+ 1 red

Was experiencing this last night, when capping C (can't remember map name, its the one where C gets bombed at the end) and my squad were all BFB members and all sat on the roof trying for easy tube kills whilst I tried to cap on my own. Needless to say we got buttered.

It's easy to blame the teamwork degradation on COD and the like but I doubt that's all there is to it, squadding with the old school like call, weets, red, trash etc is still as fun as it was in 2142, just so much harder to get now :(

[Baloo_the_big_bear]

I agree on the teamwork side of things, its rather annoying when your caping a flag on your own and finally when a squad member spawns on you your like "thankyou" then they frikin run off while your still caping the flag!! just to go and tube a couple of guys they spotted as they died!
i find myself frequently high up on the score board mainly because i try to stick with my squad and revive whore, nothing to do with skill just team work! So if i'm getting high up,then there is no reason why everyone else shouldn't be, by sticking together with your squad. Its more fun when you stick together too, i find it more of a laugh when theres others experiencing the same stuff as you. "did you see that".. "yep". Infact i tried playing engineer for a bit last night and kind of enjoyed it as ralthen kept running away from the tank as i'm shouting "i'm fixing it get back in!" and i thought to myself if you have a tank and your squad actually sticks around you, your almost invincible. We lasted ages with that one tank.

But to add to that, I think maybe if comms were better then this may eliviate the problem.

So on that note.. lets get together :D

[zool]

yeah the squad team play is lacking from how it was in 2142 but that is due mainly to crap igvo and everyone being on ts3 thus allowing ppl when you say move here the other guys counter as they just listen to the shout go here/there which is obvious when the side with only 2 bfb guys wooops the side with 10bfbers on. when i was like how the fk u know i was coming that way ? the reply was that you said on ts you was going around to A. though i will concide that the machanics of the game (destruction aspect) do make it harder to work closely as a team due to the fact as i did to some of the guys last night a good placed 40mm nade will take your full squad out. just to further the significance good igvo gives is late sat i jumped on a olds friends vent server and joined him and a few mates for a few rounds on rush and we absoulutly dominated.

also to note yeah i have many a time been in squads with ppl shouting where is my squad, why are they not with me and 90 % of the time its cause im still alive where they died and they spawned sumewhere else or i/we are still following the old orders to att/def a flag but due to said person not changing the order and running off/ order thing dont work as to squad leader it not the squads fault

the weapons do make alot of difference in 2142 from a persomal point the weapons were pretty much equal but only beniffited those that could actually use them eg me + baur = average as weets+baur=god, in this the weapons vary so much and a noob can look good due to how the weapons help him not the other way as it should be.

[Gwyd]

As far as I can see the team-play issues are down to communication, people just need to be reminded and poked a few times into playing with the squad but this needs people willing to shout out "heading to A...B....C" for everyone to be aware what squads are around and where are they going, shout out what you're doing and what you need.

You've got a few options in TS that could help.


Set up a few more channels in TS:
Pro: better communication and team play.
Con: possible fracturing of the community and the development of a few possible cliques.

Use the in-game squad voice
Con: doesn't work for everyone.

Encourage people to use TS for team-play purposes
Con: There's a fine line to walk here between fostering a fun and informal setting and promoting a team-play focused environment, people would have to be willing to ask more vocal members to let others be heard but not over step the mark.
Pro: Everyone is heard and hopefully team-play improves.

These aren't criticisms, only a few suggestions that might help, the issue is most likely going to sort it's self out over the next few nights.

[GoRedwings]

You raise a good point Gwyd. But having to say stick with the squad over and over again and drop me some ammo please when people are in your squad and in TS is not my ida of fun or teamwork.

I think last night in a squad I was leading it and then after the round we nominated another person to lead the squad. So everyone gets a chance to give the squad orders I think I was in a squad with codie and bald eagle. That way the less vocal members get a chance and don't feel left out.

Yes it is more than possible people might form cliques but it shouldn't need be like that if they just stuck with their squad and followed the squad leaders orders.

I will be totally honest there are members I rather not squad with as I know how they play. I don;t need a squad to run around like a headless chicken and having a laugh. I can do that quite well myself. But once it comes down to the wanting to play a round using teamwork there are members I will do anything to avoid being in a squad with them as a)it a waste of my time b)it's a waste of their time.

You yourself were in a squad with caramoon, ghost killer and myself. Look how well the squad did against a mostly populated BFB side the other night. And that BFB side had weets, trash and call in it. As good as they are player wise probably amongst the top 5 at BFB there is no way they could of won that game because the BFB side didn't use enough teamwork. While we were in constant commuinication and stuck together.

Nobody here at BFB comes even remotely close to weets ability in game and not even a close second to trash all round ability and teamwork ethic yet without the support of their squad let alone team I don't see how they could manage to win it. Weets often comments on how embarassing it is and trash always quits TS in disgust on how BFB as a commuinity has let itself go in what BFB was like in the early days with 2142 in regards to teamwork.

Some nights I go on the RTFN TS server and play with the boys there as there is only about 4-5 boys there who play it and they remind me of the teamwork that was here a long time ago. And I tend to squad with them more often that not as they can do which BFB can't do atm and thats teamwork.

[crcsnail]

see i said your squad was locked redders ;)
agree with a lot said here. i do try to follow orders and i am a huge revive whore, i admit that.i die a lot of the time tying to revive peeps in front of tanks etc cos i am sir florence nightingsnail. i try to stay with squad at all times ,sometimes though i click on a fellow squad members green arrow only to mysteriously be transported to the home base :( (does that happen to anyone else)
i also play on another server, for rush mode mainly . a clan called amg. they also remind me of the old bfb gameplay. they also have a slightly longer spawn time which i think is good . (im sure it is longer ? is it possible to alter spawn times? )
i am also not a big talker on voice just cos i dont seem to get time to push the button .(why i dont use knife much at all ) but regular bfb ers will know that.
i also dont like the tubers but i guess loads dont like my m60 . hey its only a game after all :)

[Varnos]

Though I grudgingly admit that teamwork has suffered a major blow since 2142, I'm not sure what to blame it on, apart from the game's mechanics and the Times (yes, I used the T word). Bear in mind that 2142 had:

1) a commander to keep an overall picture. And while it's true that this feature did not always add to the gaming experience, when a BFB'er assumed command, most blokes around started to listen.
2) a far more rigid system concerning command chains. These changes, a squad of 4 instead of 6 and the ability to spawn on any one of them seem innocent, but it lacks the leadership component that was the secret glue of most squads in 6 (remember when Callemin came into the server, formed a squad, and the other side got INSTANTLY HAMMERED? I do.)
3) a far less hectic battlefield. Game speed seems to have been cranked up, with your cover blowing up all around you, 3 team members to spawn on, the amount of instant deaths from whatever being higher (I'm actually not entirely sure about that one, but it sure seems so).

I might have been harsh on people criticising the game's solo-oriented gameplay, so if I lashed out at people losing their temper, I apologize. What I'd lóve, is a few channels in TS3, for when people want to actively squad up. Elect a leader at the beginning of such a squad, and we might be able to at least work on regaining some of the teamwork we've lost. If anyone wants to squad with me (apart from the chopper thing ;) ), give me a poke, I'm pretty curious to see how much we can accomplish if we look at it this way.

[lordgeordie]

Gored - i agree, where has the squad team work gone, the VOIP is pants on this so far (echos and no one on it) and its oddly difficult to tell people where to go etc ( the spotting sometimes fails too ) you can't even say thank you?????

mind you i still believe this is a clever plan, they will release the 2142 mechanic in Battlefield 3 which they are working on, so that will be the big pc team work game, this is the prelude.

[Mr.FinK]

Though I grudgingly admit that teamwork has suffered a major blow since 2142, I'm not sure what to blame it on, apart from the game's mechanics and the Times (yes, I used the T word). Bear in mind that 2142 had:

1) a commander to keep an overall picture. And while it's true that this feature did not always add to the gaming experience, when a BFB'er assumed command, most blokes around started to listen.
2) a far more rigid system concerning command chains. These changes, a squad of 4 instead of 6 and the ability to spawn on any one of them seem innocent, but it lacks the leadership component that was the secret glue of most squads in 6 (remember when Callemin came into the server, formed a squad, and the other side got INSTANTLY HAMMERED? I do.)
3) a far less hectic battlefield. Game speed seems to have been cranked up, with your cover blowing up all around you, 3 team members to spawn on, the amount of instant deaths from whatever being higher (I'm actually not entirely sure about that one, but it sure seems so).

I might have been harsh on people criticising the game's solo-oriented gameplay, so if I lashed out at people losing their temper, I apologize. What I'd lóve, is a few channels in TS3, for when people want to actively squad up. Elect a leader at the beginning of such a squad, and we might be able to at least work on regaining some of the teamwork we've lost. If anyone wants to squad with me (apart from the chopper thing ;) ), give me a poke, I'm pretty curious to see how much we can accomplish if we look at it this way.

This. Essentially, the game just doesn't require the same level of co-ordination as the previous era of Battlefields. Back then, if you wanted to get anywhere near the action and stay there long enough to make an impact on it you HAD to stick with your squad leader and work together. Another thing to bear in mind that there are fewer classes now too, and they're all perfectly capable of taking care of themselves with regenerating health and a plethora of weapons and kit to choose from. Back in 2142 if you didn't have a well balanced squad you were buggered, nowadays when I'm on a pub server I just roam around as Assault kicking ass and taking names all on my onesie.

[Sinnyowns]

I find the general flow has gone. From it being ammo/medic kit requests, I've quite often seen people asking me to give them ammo, as I just can't tell when you need it. I also find working in a team lacks support from a squad leader, and when you want to say what you want/need through 'Q'
I still think there is some squad play though, and maybe not to the level as on 2142, but I've played some good matches squading up with a few BFB members.

[Ripple]

time for the new guy to get his tuppence worth here methinks....

Squad play is lacking quite seriously in BC2, i dont know why this is but i have found that there are no orders issued by anyone to attack/defend a certain flag. From the majority of games i have played, it just seems to be "lets cap this flag, run to the next, lather, rinse repeat". Now i have not played clan before but instead played five years of tournament instead where you would be assigned a flag for your squad to attack/defend throughout the whole game. I am not saying this is how we should be playing the game now but it seems more regimented than the we games seem to be played at the moment.

I feel embarrassed when we have a full server with mostly BFB members on one team and we get raped by the other side filled with pubbies. How does this happen when we have all the advantages... experienced players, teamspeak, and the ever skilled (hacking) Weets and thrasher!

Solutions??? difficult to pinpoint them but maybe one is to add some squad channels to teamspeak, label them as Alpha through Hotel and let the guys squad up and get into the right channel so communication is improved and players on the other team cannot hear what you are doing or where you are going

i am certainly not going to sit and bitch about kit loadouts, noob tubes, nade launchers, M60 power etc as it will do absolutely no good other than to wind others up (although in game i am probably the most vocal about getting tubed to death, for which i apologise) but as these kits are here to stay we need to work around the problems with the game and show that it doesnt matter what class you choose, there is work to be done

or just ban the opinionated new guy and carry on as before!

[Powerdriver]

LG, I have had the same experience and have to agree with you. I am new to the game and as such not particularly good at it but I generally leave the server within a couple of rounds for the exact reason you stated. Its even more frustrating than nade spamming from 2142. Perhaps there is a setting that when the person shoots you with a bazooka at a range of 2 meters, that a little self damage would occur as it would in a halfway realistic situation?